Toshiba progressive scan RPTV has problems

Subject:      Re: 16:9 televisions
Date:         1997/10/17
Newsgroups:   alt.video.dvd
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Jason wrote:
: toshiba sells two 16x9 sets in the states. A 40" model TW40F80 ($2500)
: and a 65" model TW65G80 ($5000)....both have component video inputs
: too...i am considering the TW65G80

Don't do it.

I spent half an hour watching one of the new $6000 65" 16:9 Toshiba's
with the 3D comb filter, component inputs, and progressive scan feature.
At first I thought "this is cool no panning interlace effects!"  Then after
a while I started to notice artifacts or glitches in the progressive scan
logic.  Every now and then during a pan a little of that interlace comb tooth
effect would show its ugly head.  I don't consider this acceptable quality.

Does anyone know if the Proscan's do this?
The Faroudja's don't but then their bottom of the line line doubler costs
3X what the Toshiba RPTV does!   I've never seen a Dwin, do people find 
their progressive circuitry acceptable?

erik olson


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Subject:      Re: Progressive scan toshiba?
Date:         1997/12/04
Newsgroups:   alt.home-theater.misc
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Syow wrote:
: I hope this is not a redundant question, but here it goes..
: Is the 65" 16:9 toshiba the only sub 5K RPTV with progressive scan?  

As far as I know, yes.
The Pioneer Elites, Sony XBR's are not.  
Did Projectavision ever come out with a product?  I don't know.

Have you seen the progressive scan in action on the high end Toshiba RPTV?
Their algorithm needs some serious help.  I saw the thing glitch
occasionally and it was annoying.  When it was working correctly the
picture looked great, slightly soft but I would say superior to my XBR.
Progressive scan de-interlacing is definitely going to be the future trend
for high end RPTV's. 

IMO, unless the unit I saw was defective, a person would have to be crazy
to buy that Toshiba.  It would make you bonkers in no time.  Also Toshiba
RPTV's are not known for their build integrity, everyone I've ever seen
in a store that wasn't brand new has had some serious problems with it.

erik olson


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Subject:      Re: Toshiba Progressive scan RPTVs
Date:         1998/02/25
Newsgroups:   alt.home-theater.misc
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Fran Deisinger wrote:
> Can anyone point me to an independent review anywhere of any of the
> new Toshiba progressive scan/line doubling RPTVs?  What I've seen in
> the showroom has impressed me (i.e., drastically less visible scan
> lines and a very film-like image).  I seem to recall someone posting
...

I have spent many hours watching the new 65" 16:9 Toshiba RPTV in stores.

This is what I saw:

First I was immediately impressed with the beautiful picture.
Progressive de-interlacing is the way to go.

Then I started to notice motion artifacts, the Toshiba would occasionally
glitch the de-interlacing on moving edges.  It was subtle, but once I saw
it I couldn't ignore it.  It was ugly, and I've never seen the stand alone
line doublers behave this way.

LaserLand in San Jose / Cupertino carries this TV and the Pioneer Elite,
and the non-XBR Sony RPTV's.  I had a friend who was TV shopping so I spent
some time watching all of these TV's.  LaserLand has the big Toshiba next
to 2 different Pioneer Elites.  In comparison the Toshiba's picture was
incredibly soft.  Having them side by side is a great way to compare
the little subtle differences.  Too bad Sony won't let Laser Land sell it's
XBR RPTV's since they don't want them directly compared to the Pioneer
Elite line!!!

After comparing the 65" 16:9 Toshiba to the Pioneer Elite's I have to say
that I would never ever buy the Toshiba.  The Elite Pioneer and the non
Elite Pioneer both blew the Toshiba's picture away.  I noticed that LL's
16:9 Pioneer Elite has this funky screen window effect (similar to what
LCD front projectors do but much more subtle).  This I think is some
strange digital thing going on.  I didn't like it much.

Now LL had the non-XBR 61" RPTV in the next room and I have to say that
I thought the picture of the Sony blew both the Toshiba and Pioneer Elites
away.  Imagine what the XBR would look like?  The Sony's scan lines were
a little more evident, but the colors, the details, the depth all made this
the superior picture.

Some things about Laser Land.  They do a good job of keeping their TV's
reasonably calibrated.  They actually care how a TV looks unlike the GoodGuys,
Frys, or Circuit City.  And I get the feeling they like (prefer) selling the 
Pioneer Elites, so if anything they are biased towards the Elites.

My advice?  You don't have to be a professional in the video field to see
these flaws.  All it takes is an open mind, patience, and a chunk of time
to spend comparing and starring mindlessly at TV screens!

IMO the Sony XBR is still the "mass market" RPTV to beat.

erik olson